Black renters raise tensions in Bay Area

Cracking down on black crime is always claimed to be racist by blacks.  And of course they don't want you folks bringing in your loud music, drugs, gang bangers and all the asorted crimes that follows section 8 housing.   Hell even decent blacks don't want to live in those conditions.

I would go one step further and say it is not about poor renters it is about people who cause trouble and break laws. Having good manners, being considerate of your neighbors and obeying the law has nothing to do with skin color or money.

Thanks Lois but credit goes to my mom, grandmother and the rest of the people who raised me.

"loud parties, mean pit bulls, blaring car radios, prostitution, drug dealing and muggings of schoolchildren"

Does it really matter whether the people causing this sort of trouble are black or white?  And the lady complaining about being targeted has a husband in trouble for drunk driving?  Should that type of behavior just be overlooked?

Same thing tried here where I am from and it caused the white flight. The Blacks stay at home all day, the Whites go to work, then the houses get broken into in the day time while we were at work, at night the cars broken into and loud music gunshots etc. The kids at the bus stops had their lunch money ripped off by Black kids in large groups and then all the Whites left and the neighborhood went to sh*t . All the drug boys moved into the renters houses with the section 8 girls and all went down fast. Over a 10 year time frame, the city had to tear down 7 blocks of houses......No one won nothing. A really bad scene. I don't know the answer but between the gun shots all night and my car and house broken into I left as well. Sad story but it happened. By the way, Slumlord was my call sign in Vietnam so lets get that out the way.

Good luck to good ol Cal.

So.. lets get this straight.  A bunch of individuals, who are causing problems and who have been repeatedly visited by the police for breaking the law are now actually arrogant and stupid enough to think they can sue the city, for trying to make them follow the same laws and codes as the rest of us?

Good Lord..

If they don't want the police showing up every other day, maybe they should stop acting like lawless criminals...

Section 8 housing brings nothing but filth and crime to any neighborhood blighted by those properties.

The last 3 neighborhoods we've lived in have all seen it happen.  A home goes up for rent and a Section 8 family moves in.  Crime goes up, that property soon looks like its abandoned, and the filth living there scream that they're being targeted.  Guess what? You are!!  And you're right.. no one else wants you there..   You're trash.  Dregs of the Earth.  You bring drugs, violence and crime with you and no..  we don't want you here!

LEAVE!!

nothing ruins a neighborhood faster than most section 8 renters. they are on sec 8 because they are too damm lazy to work. no pride in themselves, impolite, racist and destroy everything they get their hands on.

I agree with the person who stated blacks are more racist !!

Also - I had to sell my small (but beautiful and well-kept) home of TWENTY SIX years .... seven years after the first black family moved in and TRASHED that house (it was down the street from me).  Not long after they moved in, a few more black families came, then more.  This large (1 square mile) neighborhood of quiet, hard-working white folks - soon became ~ 25% black and 10% mexican.  It became an absolute GHETTO !!!!  All the "thumping stereos", trash thrown out of cars, etc. etc. 

I AM ALL FOR KEEPING SECTION 8 HOUSING AND GOVERNMENT SUBSIDISED HOUSING/PEOPLE IN CERTAIN AREAS OF A TOWN/CITY - ONLY !!!  If they want to live in a "better part of town"  ... they can bust their rears at a job like the rest of us had to do !!

PS:  And "THANKS A LOT"  to all you "poor black folks wanting a better neighborhood" .... for running me out of mine !!!

it's not about race it about crime, we don't want crime to rise, the police are doing the right thing fighting back crime as is their job and responsibility to the nation.

A few things.

First, as an African-American who is highly educated yet comes from a middle class background I would have to say I disagree with  who stated in the following: "it is not about poor renters it is about people who cause trouble and break laws." I do believe that demographics definitely plays an important role in the behavior of people. Considering the likliness of reckless behavior and crime rate you can definitely see a contrast between the crime rates of an impoverished community and an upper-class community. Moving the people from an impoverished community to a middle class community does not change the behavior of the people. As they say as a proverb among African-Americans you can take the "N" out of the hood, bu you can't take the hood out of the "N." Unfortunately the behavior of some people don't change but this does not account for every single African-American but like I said we should consider the social environment.

Drakkonis said:

"What I don't understand is why someone would want to move from a bad neighborhood, move to a good one and try to turn it into what they just left."

Please forgive me if my statement is presumptious but, the above comment is a typical "white persons" answer. For one, what makes you think someone is who comes from an impoverished neighborhood is consciously trying to terrorize another neighborhood? Sure you have a large portion of individuals who are reckless and does not care for the social climate of that particular neighborhood, but that kind of generalization is not logical. As one person in the article exclaimed: "They want to live in a decent neighborhood just like anyone else."

Don't get me wrong but white and black DOES matter, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this article. unfortunately many non-minority individuals do not understand that there is a type of behavior that correlates to the individual social environment, not always, but there is a relationship. I don't attribute bad behavior to ethnicity because bad behavior i s partially developmental, but I also think many whites in these neighborhoods in subtle ways attribute bad behavior to being "black." Just because someone has 4 kids and a pit bull does not make them a bad neighbor unless they behavior transgress the laws of the land. My apologies for talking too much and I apologize if its is tangent, but I think people need more rational thinking instead of simply saying "go somewhere else."

Blacks hip-hop culture is to blame.  In hip-hop admirable person is drug dealer,a person who car jacks,a pimp and murders are considered heroes.  In hip-hop loud and obnoxious is good it gives you flavor.  Making money quick and without doing anything is even better.  Killing,stealing and rape makes you a man in other cultures your a barbarian.  They brag about having babies with different mothers but don't realize that baby is going to screw that child up,that child will be looking for a role model but no dad there so they look to older kids and tv for role models.  The funny thing is blacks in latin america and africa see hip-hip and it's tearing up there culture especially in south africa they turned that country into "gangsta's" paradise with the kidnapping and murder going on there.  You can't blame this on poverty and violence because there is 10x worst poverty and violence in other countries and there not doing this Iraq and Palestine are war zones and the only graffitii they have there is from mexican and black soldiers who are tagging building.

Police sent 315 complaints about subsidized tenants to the Contra Costa Housing Authority, which manages the federal program in the city, and urged the agency to evict many of them for lease violations such as drug use or gun possession. Lawyers for the tenants said 70 percent of the eviction recommendations were aimed at black renters. The housing authority turned down most of the requests.

People who are trying to raise families don't give a crap what percentage of the criminals in their neighborhoods are black/white/whatever, they just want something to be done when things are so obviously out of control.  Racial sensitivity shouldn't even enter the equation when we're talking about guns, drugs, and people being robbed. 

Shame on the lawyers who are working to help this lawsuit along...maybe they should host a month long sleepover for all of their "victims."

"Blacks hip-hop culture is to blame. "

What kind of comment is this? Last time I checked consumer reports, more young white adults purchase more hip-hop and listen to hip-hop than African-Americans. I will admit that media plays an important part in behavior, but calling it "blacks hip-hop" is an ignorant stereotype, as you know not all blacks listen to it.

"The funny thing is blacks in latin america and africa see hip-hip and it's tearing up there culture especially in south africa they turned that country into "gangsta's" paradise with the kidnapping and murder going on there."

Where the hell do you get your information? Hip-Hop music is not the sole factor of what is going on in latin America, need I remind the court about european colonialsm and the chaos it brought over the decades? I'm seriously curious as to where you received your information.

You can't blame this on poverty and violence because there is 10x worst poverty and violence in other countries and there not doing this Iraq and Palestine are war zones and the only graffitii they have there is from mexican and black soldiers.

Who is blaming poverty? In my previous post I merely stated, poverty was a correlate to behavior, I never said it caused behavior. I also didn't understand how tagging from U.S. soldiers was relevant to this discussion. 

Why was bussing for schools instituted? "White Flight"...

The conditions described should not have to be tolerated no matter who perpetrates them.

We have become a society of "Entitled" "Victims". If certain people do not get everything they THINK they are entitled to then they are victims.

Of course they want the same things their neighbors have. The solution? Work for them.

This has happened since the Housing Authority bought the Maya Linda apartments in my Mira Mesa neighborhood here in San diego.  We had, just the other night, a scene straight out of Keystone Kops with the Kops looking for a "black guy running through here" situation.  Until the purchase of the apartments to move the low income tenants out of where ever, probably downtown with the urban renewal downtown to maximize the quantity of human occupants at maximum costs, we had virtually no crime or gangs in this neighborhood.  These poor people are seen walking, entire families of 6 or 8, carrying their groceries home because they have no car of their own.

When poor people get exposed to the middle class who have been middle class since childhood, it is difficult for the poorer residents not to fall into coveting and envying those around them and wanting to take shortcuts to be like those who have for a lifetime been building a lifestyle to be envied.  It is difficult to be on the outside when all around you have cars, new bikes for Christmas, money to spend on movies, etc. 

Since equalizing their housing arrangements does not cause them to equalize their income for various reasons, it could be a bit better not to purchase large apartment complexes.  It would make me feel safer not to deal with those who would steal to better themselves.

First, as an African-American who is highly educated yet comes from a middle class background.

Fleming this statement clearly say that americans have done right by you as an african American, you've obtain a good education, unlike me a latino. back to the point, this isn't about poor black it's about behavior and crime... we don't want crime in our cities..

They don't know any better.  Anyone who can't afford the neighborhood shouldn't be there.  I am sick of gimme programs.  If these people had to work for a peaceful neighborhood they would do better.  It's just not right, how people can do this.  And I don't care what color you are.  If you can't afford you, you shouldn't be there.  If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them.  Let's get rid of this entitlement attitude.

Back in the 80s, my city elected it's first Black mayor, and it wasn't long until he set about scattering public housing around the city, under the auspices of helping the disadvantaged see how the other half lived, and supposedly they then would learn to live like the rest of us:  What a bunch of cr*p!  Those housing projects still, today are nothing more than blights on their areas.  One area in particular was devastated, property values plummeted, and yes, the Whites that could afford to,  got out pretty fast.  A very fine community shopping center was nearly vacated and now is a mere shadow of it's former glory.  

In the mid-nineties, our Housing Authority began offering "vouchers" instead of "certificates" to it's clients.  The difference is that with "certificates", the rent amount the Authority pays is fixed,  relative to the number of bedrooms/bathrooms in a given home.  In that scenario, Section 8 tenants cannot move to more affluent areas with government help, and they stay where their economic status dictates.  With the "voucher" system however, a Section 8 tenant can move anywhere in the city they wish, as long as the tenant can pay their 1/3 or so portion of the rent set by any given landlord.  When Section 8 people started renting homes in the range of $1,500 and up per month; you can only imagine where these people ended up:  in some pretty decent areas, and the working neighbors who strive to pay their mortgages, maintain their lawns and pay property taxes,  get the priviledge of living next door to low-lifes with pit bulls etc, courtesy of your unfriendly government.  

As you can probably tell, I am a landlord, and I refuse to own apartments or too many homes in the same area; so if one area starts to suffer some sort of BS, I just sell the d*mned house and buy somewhere else with no rif-raf.  It's pretty simple, but it works.  Not too many eggs in one basket, as they say.  As for Section 8, I used to do that too on a limited scale, but after a few years, I just couldn't take dealing with tenants of that mentality anymore, and sold every single one of them.  Now they are somebody elses' problem.

Political pressure forced our local Housing Authority to return to the "certificate" program, and that has helped dramatically.  Perhaps some of you could force the same in your cities.  Beware,  though,  those bleeding-heart Legal Aid lawyers.  They've never met a low-life they didn't love to "help". 

What’s that you say? The liberal district of San Francisco in the liberal state of California is having problems with racial integration? Say it isn’t so! I thought only redneck Southerners had a problem with race – right?

As a white man, I’ll let everyone in on a little secret: You see, white liberals may SAY they value racial diversity but way down deep inside, white liberals are very much like white conservatives: they want to feel safe in their own neighborhoods!

And despite DECADES of well meaning social programs and BILLIONS of dollars spent on welfare, section 8, affirmative action, crime prevention, diversity training and other egalitarian undertakings, a very stubborn and undeniable fact still remains: Black neighborhoods are simply more chaotic, noisy and dangerous than white neighborhoods!

 Now we can argue all day long about WHY black neighborhoods are this way – nature vs nurture, genetics vs environment etc. But when push comes to shove and all the talking is over, whites of ALL political stripes will value their personal safety over political correctness every single day of the week. (and that goes for Asians too, by the way)

 And so it goes, on and on, ad infinitum.  But there IS hope. We might just solve this racial dilemma yet! But it will require something of whites. It will require them to be…(gasp!) HONEST.

 You see, none of our racial problems will ever change until the good white people of America gather up the courage to admit what is deep in their hearts: That despite their best intentions, despite their attempts to be colorblind and yes, even despite the election of Barack Obama – despite all these things – white people are simply most comfortable when they live in majority white neighborhoods.

 And that’s…OK.

 There. Now that wasn’t so hard – was it? 

Whitebird..they do know better. They know it takes hard work, self control, feeling that their worthy individuals w/out the bling, saggy overpriced pants, sneakers, lexus, escapade that they or anyone of any other race SHOULD NOT have if they are on section 8. It is a lack of GOOD parenting (as many of these people became parents repeatedly on "accident" as if that is actually a valid excuse in this day and information age) it IS a lack of respect for authority and order both in the low income communities or those that have been fortunate and priviliged enough to be offered the OPPORTUNITY to live in a better neighborhood where GOOD PARENTING AND LIVING can create a better cycle for the generations ahead. It is STUPID hip hop and who cares that more white people buy it, most of those don't have an inkling of what that type of lifestyle is so it is mostly a phase they go through as most of those will end up with a college degree and no jail time. For others who live it, it IS a sense of justification for their own cyclical destruction, they too can live badly and grow up to be a rapper (ya right) remember it affects (hip hop) each socioeconomic group differently. I personally am a responsible ambitious worker, I am raising my kids to be thoughtful, independant, considerate adults and forcing them to be ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR MISTAKES. I AM watching them, who their friends are and darn right if I see they are trouble I will create other opportunities to divert them from that person. I enforce the rules AND responsibilities of maintaining a home and being part of neighborhood as I know eventually they will be motivated to do this as adults and parents. It is hard, repetitive and at times seemingly fruitless work but I keep my eye on the prize and know the gratification is not instant. Unforch, many (all races) Section 8/Welfare get lazy as these programs are enablers without limits. You're on Section 8? Mandatory minimum one year birth control shot for the women (no you should not have the PRIVILIGE OF GETTING PREGNANT IF YOU CAN'T EVEN AFFORD THE ONE YOU HAVE, COMMON SENSE PEOPLE), MANDATORY SAVINGS PLAN, MANDATORY SCHOOL//TRADE SCHOOL, YOU GET KICKED OFF IF YOU CAN'T STAY OUT OF JAIL SINCE YOU WILL PROBABLY END UP THERE ANYWAYS SO THE HANDOUT WAS A TOTAL LOSS...I could go on..AND YES...IF YOU CAN'T (OR MORE ACCURATELY) WON'T WORK HARD TO PUT SOME SELF CONTROL IN YOUR KIDS CAUSE YOU CAN'T EVEN DO IT FOR YOURSELF OR TAKE CARE OF YOUR HOME THEN GET OUT BECAUSE NO WE DON'T WANT THAT IN A COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO DO HAVE PRIDE IN WHAT THEY HAVE WORKED HARD TO ATTAIN.

 I am so tired of blacks claming it is all racial descrimination. These neighborhoods with section 8 housing have real crime. It is not made up to make African-Americans look bad.

I have to recall a investigative reporting show about descrimnation. A white lady and a black lady are shopping in a clothing store. On the video the clerk follows the black lady closely and counts the clothes she brings into the dressing room. She does not watch the white lady as closely. The show went on about how awful it was, the black lady treated differently. The most interesting thing to me was no one on the show mentioned the sales lady was black. If it was all racial why was she following a black lady so closely? Could it possibly be that in her past experience it was blacks were the ones stealing from her? How it that racial descrimination somehow the fault of white Americans.

Wake up. An African-American man has just been elected to our highest office by the American people. All people should take responsibility for you own actions, quit blaming others for your behavior.

If peoples complaints are justified then so be it.  It wouldn't matter if you were black, white, pink, or green...ignorant is ignorant.  Why is it always about race?  If you want to live in a nice neighborhood get off your butt and work for it.  Why should my tax dollars subsidize their laziness.  I could sure use a free handout but I wouldn't qualify....I work to hard. Imagine that!!!!!

Newsvine is really playing games with everybody on this column. When you try getting to it on the story your always the first to post or there's one other post. You have to search to get to this post, with some wonderful discussion going on. The variety of views and the truths being written tonight is very refreshing. They need to be sent to Ted Kennedy, a major backer of HUD Section 8 programs. Lyndon Johnson help start all of this some 40 years ago, and now the legal aid lawyers now how the game is played for there clients. To bad. Good old Government housing! The westside of South Bend is one dangerous place these days, thank you Congressman Donnelly (D).

Why would you take care of something if you don't have to pay for it????  Isn't that basic common sense 101?   I have seen brand new government subsidised apartment complexes go up and in a time span of 1 year were absolute dumps!!  This country needs to wake up!